Calvinists, who deny that salvation can ever be lost, reason on the subject in a marvellous way. They tell us, that no virgin's lamp can go out; no promising harvest be choked with thorns; no branch in Christ can ever be cut off from unfruitfullness; no pardon can ever be forfeited, and no name blotted out of God's book! They insist that no salt can ever lose its savor; nobody can ever 'receive the grace of God in vain'; 'bury his talents'; 'neglect such great salvation'; trifle away 'a day of grace'; 'look back' after putting his hand to the gospel plow. Nobody can 'grieve the Spirit' till He is 'quenched,' and strives no more, nor 'deny the Lord that bought them'; nor 'bring upon themselves swift destruction.' Nobody, or body of believers, can ever get so lukewarm that Jesus will spew them out of His mouth. They use reams of paper to argue that if one ever got lost he was never found (John 17:12); that if one falls, he never stood (Rom. 11:16-22 and Heb.6:4-6); if one was ever 'cast forth,' he was never in, and 'if one ever withered,' he was never green (John 15:1-6); and that 'if any man draws back,' it proves that he never had anything to draw back from (Heb. 10:38, 39); that if one ever 'falls away into spiritual darkness,' he was never enlighteded (Heb. 6:4-6); that if you 'again get entangled in the pollutions of the world,' it shows that you never espcaped (2 Pet. 2:20); that if you 'put salvation away' you never had it to put away, and if you make shipwreck of faith, there was no ship of faith there!! in short they say: If you get it, you can't lose it; and if you lose it you never had it. May God save us from accepting a doctrine, that must be defended from such fallacious reasoning!" ~ John Wesley
I have some friends of the Christian variety, that believe in the doctrine of once saved, always saved. I am of a different mind, but I am not inclined to apologetics: I gave those up long ago, in my university days. Rather than debate by going toe to toe utilizing scripture, I prefer the ever so slightly caustic well versed quotes from John Wesley, to dismantle the argument that when a person says they believe in Jesus Christ as their Saviour, perhaps even getting baptized and taking communion in the presence of God and his saints, means they are thereafter, no matter what they say and do, forever 'saved.'
I know what love grown cold sounds and looks like. Anyone that has gone through a divorce understands that where there once was glowing ambers of affection, there might only remain, as the years go by, cold ashes from a fire that burned out and could not be rekindled. I have considered the man I was married to, and whether or not I still love him. I think it romantic to say that I do, but question whether or not this is true. Out of sight, out of mind? How, dear reader, can it be any different, in any of our relationships? When one has left, and the other looks longingly at first to follow, but cannot, and does not, because they are uninvited, does this not represent the ending of said relationship? Does it not make sense, that there must be at least two, one two, count 'em, to make a couple in love, in like, in friendship, marriage, partnership, in relationship?
God calls us into relationship with him and some answer the call, gleefully, similar to the first blush of attraction, a puppy love kind of feeling, ecstatic in the excitement of newness. When the feelings fade, and another strikes their fancy, the shallowness of affection wains, and off the puppy goes in search of something new to gratify their immature desire for temporary satisfaction. Believing in God is fanciful for some, trusting in him and living according to his will as described in the Bible, is entirely, a different story.
Allow me to enumerate what Wesley refers to in his countering of the once saved, always saved argument, based on scripture that points exactly to the opposite. I will not be doing your homework for you, I only suggest you look up the scripture references and come to your own conclusions. You will read the repeated phrase, is in reference to, to lead you to the contrary message that many a believer needs to read to understand that God demands more from us, then a simple one and done confession or profession of faith. We must live according to his will, his way, for all our lives, to ensure our salvation:
- No virgin's lamps can go out is, in reference to Matthew 25:1-14
- No promising harvest be choked with thorns, is in reference to Matthew 13:22
- No branch in Christ can ever be cut off from unfruitfullness, is in reference to John 15:2
- No pardon can ever be forfeited, and no name blotted out of God's book, is in reference to 33:8 & Exodus 32:33 respectively
- They insist that no salt can ever lose its savor is in reference to Matthew 15:13
- Nobody can ever receive the grace of God in vain, is in reference to 2 Corinthians 6:1
- Bury his talents, is in reference to Matthew 25:15
- Neglect such great salvation, is in reference to Hebrews 2:3
- Trifle away a day of grace, is reference to 2 Corinthians 6:2
- Look back after putting his hand to the gospel plow, is in reference to Luke 9:62
- Nobody can grieve the Spirit till He is quenched, is in reference to 1 Thessalonians 5:19
- Nor deny the Lord that bought them; nor bring upon themselves swift destruction, is in reference to Peter 2:1
- Nobody, or body of believers, can ever get so lukewarm that Jesus will spew them out of His mouth, is in reference to Revelation 3:16
For the rest of what John Wesley references, he has given us verses to look up.
During a discussion about this topic, my son made simple sense of what has become a controversial conversation point for those that love the Lord and their Bibles too! He stated, That's why the warnings are there...
Why, O why, would God repeatedly warn us that what we have now, can be lost, if it weren't true? Do we not have a plethora of examples in the Bible, and here I am considering king Solomon, who under the seductive influence of his many heathen wives, indulged in idol worship, cutting his life a little shorter than it would have been, if he had been obedient in his covenantal relationship with God. God does not condone sin, or trifle with it, or us for that matter. He is very direct in his messaging, and I for one, take the warnings very seriously.
Speaking of covenantal relationships... when someone steps out, leaving the relating to another broken beyond repair, how is that reconciled? In other words, if you, or I, decide to walk away from God, will he not let us go our wayward way? Isn't that what freedom to choose good over evil is, deciding to stay in relationship with him over toying with the wicked world. Do you not know someone, dear reader, that once was saved and now, sadly, is lost?
I will end here with a short story. When I was twenty-two I met a Baptist. The Baptist became my spiritual mentor and my go to when I had God questions. Eventually, she suggested I go directly to the Bible for my answers. Over time, she became a debauched women, drinking, driving with her kids in the car, swearing, and she even had a boyfriend, whilst attending marriage counselling. In the end ~ she died young ~ she was consulting the dark spirits to guide her. I ask you, is she now, in heaven, with God, after inebriation, fornication, lying, manipulating, endangering herself, her children, and innocent fellow drivers? Was she once saved, always saved?
Only God knows where she ended up, because God knows hearts. And this ought to be our warning, God knows what is in each man's mind, each woman's heart, each child's soul. He knows, will not be mocked, and will not allow entrance into his kingdom, those that go directly and willfully, against his Word.
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity (Matthew 7:22-23)
P.S: I guess this piece of writing is a teeny tiny apologetic... but really, dear reader, it is my attempt at letting people know, that they must abide in God, for him to abide in them. What could possibly be more magnificent?!
Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me (John 15:4)
Linda, we don't differ on most issues but on this one we seem on opposite ends. I believe we would all be doomed if every time we sinned after salvation we lost what Jesus already paid for with His death and resurrection. I have yet to meet one single solitary believer that after he was saved never sinned again. And in God's eyes all sins are the same no matter how small we have been accustomed to. I had a conversation with a parent of a kid who went to the Christian school where our kids attended around 30 years ago (ouch, that dates me) who believed that unless you were in perfect standing with God at the exact moment of death you would not be saved but end up in hell for eternity. My question to him was so if I'm "trying" to live a Godly life but I'm driving along and adjust my radio or whatever and miss a stop sign on the highway and at the last second I look up and a semi is about to T-bone me and I say "oh *****" I would lose my salvation to which he replied yes. Well a few years later he had a farm accident and his head got crushed by his post pounder and he died. According to his rationalle he most likely would be in hell right now since no one is sin free after salvation. To me the best verse is John 3:16 which states "whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life". That's about as plain as Jesus could make it. If it were otherwise He would have included along with belief something about always doing good or not sinning to attain salvation but He chose not to.
ReplyDeleteTitus 3 also confirms this in the following verses:
4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
I agree that after salvation we are called to be set apart and different than our old selves in the former sin nature but that is part of sanctification and in no way part of eternal salvation.
Hello Hello Friend!
ReplyDeleteIt isn't about being perfectly sin free... that would be God making fun of us because of the impossibility of that kind of stipulation to get into heaven! It is about having a heart for God, like king David did... a bloody man of war, compared to his progeny, king Solomon, the wisest man, by God's grace, that ever walked the earth, a man of peace and prosperity, that in his elder years, forsook the Lord, lusted after his foreign wives and concubines, and build altars and even worshipped at them!
His heart was not fixed on the Lord, and you know, while God can accept repentance, the reproach may very well stay the same. Solomon, in the end, was no longer a figure of Christ, while his father David remained known as prefiguring Christ in his dedications and obedience... why, O why, is apostasy mentioned in the Bible, if we cannot lose our salvation by going astray?
Hugs friend, thanks for the ribbing, you know I appreciate you greatly 💖
LGB